FAFO Live with Sam Rose

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There is an argument to be made where I think more

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people should be trying less frequent, higher effort.

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Pieces of work, and I don't see that many people doing

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it, and I'm looking for them all the time because I really

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would like to talk to anybody doing this kind of thing.

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Welcome to Fork Around and Find Out, the podcast about

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building, running, and maintaining software and systems.

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Hello and welcome to Fork Around and Livestream, the

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most ridiculous livestream podcast on the internet.

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More ridiculous than Hot Dr. Pepper.

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If you know what that is, uh, Who

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drinks

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hot Dr. Pepper juice?

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Uh, I thought you meant spicy.

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I don't know why.

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No, like, actually, like warm Dr. Pepper.

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Uh, this is like a thing that used to be, Dr.

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Pepper was trying to make it like a big thing

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back in the, I think it was like 60s, 70s?

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Um, there's a movie called a blast from the past with

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Christopher Walken is the dad and he always drank hot Dr. Pepper.

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And everyone's like, Ooh, he drank it hot.

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But I saw like ads for people that were, they would do hot Dr.

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Pepper.

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And I tried it this, this last winter.

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I'm like, I'm going to see it.

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I'm going to see what it's like.

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And it tastes like flat Dr. Pepper.

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It's not good.

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Uh, but they said put lemon in it, like put a slice of lemon in the bottom and

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then it just tasted like flat Dr. Pepper with lemon, which was not any better.

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Pro tip for everyone.

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Autumn, you're, you're speechless.

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Look, Sam's also speechless.

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Like, we're trying to decide if we still want to be your friend after this.

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Okay.

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Sam's

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face wasn't like, you are ridiculous.

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That was called being repulsed, Justin.

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Repulsed.

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There's, there's not

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a lot I can say.

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Like, we have a bunch of weird culinary things in the UK as well.

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And no, like, not just UK.

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So, like, my dad, for example, and this is apparently not just

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a him thing, I've heard other people do this as well, so when

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he makes toast, he will toast his bread until it is charred.

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It's, it's, there's black char all around the bread, and then he'll put it

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in the fridge to cool it down, and then he scrapes the char off one side, and

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butters it, but it's cool so the butter doesn't melt, and then he eats that.

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And like, growing up I was just like Yeah, I was like, this is very strange,

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and I just recently, like two or three weeks ago, I was telling people

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in work about this, and someone was like, oh yeah, my mom does that too.

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Why is this a thing?

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Where do people get this?

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To get cold.

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So the butter

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doesn't melt.

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I don't like melted butter.

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I know, right?

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That's one of the things.

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I like literally put my toast in the oven so I

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can put the butter on it to make sure it melts.

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You put the toast in the oven with the butter?

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I just leave my butter on the counter.

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Toaster, sideways.

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Problem solved.

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Yeah.

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That also works.

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But then like, you know, I just, I'm the mom.

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Like if it goes south, I'm the one that has to clean it up.

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Like

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anyone listening to this, leave us a comment of your most ridiculous food.

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I'm still stuck on the fact, like Like you don't drink coffee.

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And then you were like, I'm gonna drink hot Dr. Pepper.

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Like, you don't drink.

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Why are you surprised?

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I don't understand

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Like I'm not having it for breakfast.

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That's for sure.

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Every day that you don't drink coffee, I'm still surprised.

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Like, and then you add the like, not only is it Dr. Pepper, but hot.

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Like what?

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Warm it up, assessed

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You put

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it on

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the

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stove, you wor wait,

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put it on

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a stove, pour out a can, heat it up.

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Wait, you didn't just.

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Drink warm Dr. Pepper?

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No, you gotta eat it.

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It's hot

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Dr. Pepper.

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It's not lukewarm Dr. Pepper.

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This is hot Dr. Pepper.

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It tastes like flat Dr. Pepper.

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Did you used to drink coffee and you quit?

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Or do you just not like coffee and never have?

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I cannot stand the taste of coffee.

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Okay, so, so for the longest time I was in the same boat.

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And so I grew up in like a real small village in Wales.

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Very kind of homogenous.

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No, we're, so it's mandatory to learn Welsh in school.

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So I, I have like a very.

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Like, one or two phrases of Welsh, like, I can ask to

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go to the toilet, which is, Ga i fynd â'r toilet os wel

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can da, but I can't do any kind of conversational Welsh.

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It was very homogenous, very small village feel, so I didn't

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really learn a whole lot about the world, and like, coffee to

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me was just like, you put instant coffee in some hot water, and

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that's what it is, and, you know, grew up not liking coffee.

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And then I moved to London after I'd been to university to get my first

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job, and got introduced to, like, metropolitan people in a metropolitan

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environment, and people started to get me to try things I had not

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tried before, and I learned all about things like craft beer, and

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whiskey, and nice food, and steaks that are cooked less than well done.

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Um, and coffee, and I went to a nice coffee shop.

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Justin

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grew up in California, like, he has no excuse of why he's broken.

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He just knows he doesn't like it.

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I just didn't know I didn't like it.

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And then I tried nice coffee, and I like it.

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I used to go into coffee shops, like, my parents

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always drank it, and like, it would give me headaches.

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Like the smell of coffee was like something that like, I just couldn't stand.

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And I was just like, anytime I was like around coffee for the

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longest time as a kid, I probably never tried like a good coffee.

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But if there's like a hint of coffee taste in like

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a Starbucks drink or something, I cannot drink it.

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It's just, I do not.

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A hint of coffee?

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Yeah.

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Like I'll get like, it's like a liquid cake with a little bit of coffee in it.

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Right.

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And it's just like, nah, I can't like, it's just, it has a coffee taste.

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I can't do it.

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Liquid cake?

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Starbucks drinks are just all sugar.

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It's like, if you want to drink a slice of cake, go to Starbucks.

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Tiramisu.

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Tiramisu is amazing.

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Like coffee, ice cream.

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Like I, how could you?

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The smell of coffee is one of those.

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Visceral things like I smell a nice coffee and it's just like

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this is one of the warmest and most wonderful experiences

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Like it makes my soul happy Like I just don't like when I hate everybody

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and people wake me up way too early in the morning like coffee is the

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like It motivates me to get out of bed and, like, not shake people.

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Okay, like, what's, I, I cannot relate.

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One of the main reasons to follow Ahmad Shadid, other than his amazing

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articles on CSS, is that he posts these pictures of beautiful coffees.

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And if you don't follow Ahmad Shadid, like, you really should.

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I think his website is I S H A D E E D dot com.

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Like Ish Hadid, he does incredible CSS

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posts, but he also posts this amazing coffee.

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How did you get through COVID and not get obsessed

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with espresso makers and all kind of stuff?

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Because now I'm bougie and I can't go back and like

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all of tech Twitter lost its whole entire mind.

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And that's the best thing

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about Dr. Pepper is I can't get bougie about it.

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It's just, it's just a Dr. Pepper.

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It's

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just like a You tried to heat it up, so I don't know if I agree with you.

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I was experimenting

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with what the past was like.

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I was not planning on making this my vibe.

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I was gonna say, have you continued this?

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Is this something that you and I are like, Wow,

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this was great, I'm gonna continue doing it was

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terrible, but like I just, I want to know, like, what made you think,

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like, it's just sugar and like, you have the nerd to talk about

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Starbucks drinks being cake, you inhale sugar, like, nobody's business.

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The other, last time we recorded, he's

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over there trying to sneak, like, licorice.

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I can't

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stand licorice.

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I hate it.

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I can't.

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I can't do it.

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And then he like has like, he was shoving candy

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and hiding it from his kids in a Lego hat.

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Like, really?

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Really?

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We're talking about Starbucks being cake, sir.

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Don't give me a hard time about sugar.

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If you're going out and getting a Frappuccino, I

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make real lattes, sir. And I like bougie.

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Seattle has ruined me.

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Okay.

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I can't just, I can't even go to Starbucks anymore.

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I can't live in Seattle cause I don't like coffee.

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Like I don't think I'm allowed.

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That's fine.

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Though.

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Okay.

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Like it's a bunch of breweries, coffee shops and

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tech and people that like hiking way too much.

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Like the REI is like a lifestyle here.

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Like it's too much.

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So I've been to Seattle twice and I remember the first time I was

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there, I went for work when I was working at Google, and it was

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like, you know, you land, get to the hotel, you check in, you go and

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meet your colleagues, and everyone's like, hey, welcome to Seattle.

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Did you know Starbucks was founded here?

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Let's go to Starbucks.

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Starbucks is just down the road, the first one, we can go, it's the first one.

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I'm just like, oh, hello, let's just calm down.

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Also, like, it's not even the real first

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one, it's tiny, the line's always super long.

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Is it not the real first one?

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Supposedly it's not.

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Supposedly.

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Oh, there's some lore.

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Yeah, there's lore.

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Like Seattle lore.

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But dude, Pike's place is bomb though.

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Like it is so cute.

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It is outrageously expensive.

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Like I bought like tomatoes from that thing from the place, like one of the

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markets and it was like bajillion dollar tomatoes, but they're really cool.

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You know what I just realized?

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We are nine minutes into this and I didn't even do a proper intro

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for anyone that is listening to this episode for the very first time.

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Welcome to the podcast.

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I'm terrible at doing introductions.

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That's because usually we can like stop like mid thingy and like

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do it and then they edit it But this is just pure ADHD flow of like

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and yeah, welcome to our second live stream The

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first one that's actually posted on YouTube.

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So hopefully this one works I'm Justin Garrison with

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me is Autumn Nash and Sam Rose is back to join us for

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this fun event of a live stream Thank you so much Sam.

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It's

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like an emoji.

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Okay, like he has like the kindest sweetest smiling

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Just face does look kind He has the perfect beard

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trim, too.

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I know!

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Your beard is super clean right now.

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Thank you.

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I just got it done today, actually.

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I feel like you just, like, just, like, just, you just look like a nice person.

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And then his, like, website is so nice.

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It has, like, Easter eggs and it's adorable.

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I've never been compared to an emoji before.

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That's a first for me.

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But no, thank you.

252
00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:50,989
just feel like if

253
00:09:51,099 --> 00:09:54,300
somebody was like, I don't know, just have like a nice face.

254
00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:56,420
Like just, you can tell you're a nice person.

255
00:09:57,160 --> 00:09:58,110
No, I try.

256
00:09:58,290 --> 00:10:01,589
To, to avoid this episode going for three hours, we should

257
00:10:01,589 --> 00:10:03,589
probably talk about a couple of our You invited Sam.

258
00:10:03,589 --> 00:10:05,640
You knew exactly what you were getting yourself into.

259
00:10:05,659 --> 00:10:07,639
You know how excited I am to talk to Sam?

260
00:10:07,649 --> 00:10:08,760
Like, this is your fault.

261
00:10:08,850 --> 00:10:09,350
Like

262
00:10:09,729 --> 00:10:11,910
Well, Sam, why don't, why don't you share one of your

263
00:10:11,910 --> 00:10:12,949
links first?

264
00:10:13,150 --> 00:10:19,354
So this is from a a person called Amy Goodchild, and she does a

265
00:10:19,354 --> 00:10:22,545
bunch of creative programming, procedural art, that kind of thing.

266
00:10:22,905 --> 00:10:24,805
And she's going through this process at the moment where

267
00:10:24,805 --> 00:10:29,314
she is codifying her handwriting essentially into a font.

268
00:10:30,154 --> 00:10:34,094
And she's doing all the work to make it so that the letters join

269
00:10:34,094 --> 00:10:36,895
up correctly, if they're next to each other and things like that.

270
00:10:36,925 --> 00:10:40,255
And I think part of the process as well is that this

271
00:10:40,405 --> 00:10:42,894
handwriting, because it's so specific to her and

272
00:10:42,895 --> 00:10:45,734
personalized, it's also a lot smaller than your average font.

273
00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:48,330
So I think part of it is to minimize the size of

274
00:10:48,330 --> 00:10:50,280
the things that she's making, as far as I remember.

275
00:10:50,570 --> 00:10:53,170
The whole process of going through it though is so cool, and the

276
00:10:53,170 --> 00:10:55,730
way that she's using it, if you kind of scroll through the post and

277
00:10:55,750 --> 00:10:58,519
you skim it and you go down and you see the bits of artwork she's

278
00:10:58,519 --> 00:11:03,110
created with it, so creative, such a really Like, it's an incredible

279
00:11:03,110 --> 00:11:06,260
end result, like I think her, her process is really inspiring.

280
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:08,370
I'm trying to figure out, because she mentions that she has

281
00:11:08,370 --> 00:11:10,700
like a cursive, she's lining them up with cursive so it's like

282
00:11:10,700 --> 00:11:14,350
the, the lines flow, but like the screenshot isn't cursive.

283
00:11:14,809 --> 00:11:14,899
I

284
00:11:14,900 --> 00:11:18,859
think as you get further down, you'll see kind of joined up examples of it.

285
00:11:18,980 --> 00:11:20,960
There's one point where she shows it like side by

286
00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:23,630
side with her actual handwriting, which is quite cool.

287
00:11:23,819 --> 00:11:26,959
I feel like bad because Sam's a hard act to follow.

288
00:11:27,269 --> 00:11:30,199
So I had no idea, the, the thing just said like one or

289
00:11:30,199 --> 00:11:32,269
two links and I was like, I don't mean it, like whatever.

290
00:11:32,709 --> 00:11:36,729
I was gonna post like a super petty link about how they broke

291
00:11:36,729 --> 00:11:40,219
into Dodge's website and I was super excited about it, but now

292
00:11:40,219 --> 00:11:40,319
I'm

293
00:11:40,319 --> 00:11:40,489
like,

294
00:11:40,499 --> 00:11:43,680
Oh, the available for anyone to write.

295
00:11:44,119 --> 00:11:46,239
It makes me so happy because they're so dumb.

296
00:11:48,209 --> 00:11:52,720
But like, Sam has like art and that's so much better and it's not

297
00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:56,079
all like petty and I feel like I should have got a cute art one.

298
00:11:56,450 --> 00:11:58,410
I figured I'd stay in my lane a little bit here.

299
00:11:58,479 --> 00:12:02,069
Like I'm, I'm staying in the artistic visual kind of feel.

300
00:12:02,069 --> 00:12:02,670
It's on brand.

301
00:12:02,709 --> 00:12:04,060
This is, this is a great art.

302
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:04,340
That is

303
00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:07,160
so very Sam and on brand.

304
00:12:07,634 --> 00:12:11,125
I will share my link for I'm loving it.

305
00:12:11,295 --> 00:12:13,405
It was exploiting McDonald's APIs to hijack

306
00:12:13,405 --> 00:12:15,015
deliveries and other foods for a penny.

307
00:12:15,405 --> 00:12:17,405
And I found it fascinating because they went through

308
00:12:17,425 --> 00:12:20,564
this whole process of like looking at just basically

309
00:12:20,585 --> 00:12:23,384
looking at your browser explorer for like what APIs exist.

310
00:12:23,385 --> 00:12:25,275
It's a, it was a angular app.

311
00:12:25,515 --> 00:12:28,475
I also love that on this article, your mouse pointer turns

312
00:12:28,475 --> 00:12:32,429
into a thing of McDonald's fries, which is just so good.

313
00:12:32,700 --> 00:12:33,710
That's just petty.

314
00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:36,480
That's like you, it's a McDonald's fry.

315
00:12:36,560 --> 00:12:38,270
So, so the thing, like they were looking

316
00:12:38,270 --> 00:12:41,770
for hacker sort of like bounty bug bounties.

317
00:12:41,819 --> 00:12:45,070
And so they were doing this for a reason to try to bug bounty.

318
00:12:45,229 --> 00:12:48,539
I believe this person is, is not in India, but.

319
00:12:48,790 --> 00:12:51,430
McDonald's in India was the only one that had a bug bounty,

320
00:12:51,770 --> 00:12:53,970
and so they were going through and like, Oh, where can I get

321
00:12:53,970 --> 00:12:56,450
a bug bounty for for just to make some money or whatever?

322
00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:58,879
And and they meticulously detailed like

323
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,280
everything they did to find the API endpoints.

324
00:13:01,620 --> 00:13:03,409
And then like, Oh, what happens if I curl this?

325
00:13:03,410 --> 00:13:06,169
What happens if I just send a message like what data does this need?

326
00:13:06,180 --> 00:13:08,670
And they're like making up order numbers and all this stuff.

327
00:13:08,670 --> 00:13:09,859
And they're like, Oh, what does that do?

328
00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,580
And it just really shows like if you've never reverse engineered an API.

329
00:13:14,820 --> 00:13:16,480
This is the mindset you just kind of have to have.

330
00:13:16,490 --> 00:13:17,210
It's like, Oh, what's that?

331
00:13:17,330 --> 00:13:18,750
Let me try sending data to it.

332
00:13:18,750 --> 00:13:21,770
Let me try receiving data to it, whatever, and see what happens.

333
00:13:21,770 --> 00:13:23,639
And they ended up in the process of like, they could

334
00:13:23,639 --> 00:13:26,339
track any order that was happening at the time.

335
00:13:26,339 --> 00:13:28,580
They could see where on the map, the delivery driver was, they

336
00:13:28,580 --> 00:13:31,519
could change the prices for things to a cent and then pay for it.

337
00:13:31,519 --> 00:13:33,400
So they had like in their basket, a hundred

338
00:13:33,410 --> 00:13:35,350
hash browns, all of them for a penny.

339
00:13:35,439 --> 00:13:36,240
I'm like, Oh yeah.

340
00:13:36,624 --> 00:13:37,025
All right.

341
00:13:37,975 --> 00:13:40,155
And it was just like even creating an account because they

342
00:13:40,155 --> 00:13:43,985
didn't have a number in the country that they couldn't verify.

343
00:13:43,985 --> 00:13:45,474
So they're like, Oh, well, we can't verify

344
00:13:45,475 --> 00:13:46,485
you because you're out of the country.

345
00:13:46,625 --> 00:13:48,594
So they found a way to create an account through an

346
00:13:48,594 --> 00:13:50,595
API endpoint that didn't require the verification.

347
00:13:50,605 --> 00:13:54,724
Like, Oh, this is just in the browser just by exploring what's going on.

348
00:13:54,745 --> 00:13:57,454
And I just I thought it was a really good reverse engineering post.

349
00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:57,990
If

350
00:13:57,990 --> 00:13:59,920
you've never been through the process of doing that before

351
00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,320
on a website, if you're listening to this, it's so much fun.

352
00:14:02,380 --> 00:14:06,790
Just, there's also like, I think you do have to be a little bit careful that

353
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,939
you don't do something accidentally malicious, because I think a lot of people

354
00:14:09,939 --> 00:14:14,359
don't realize how easy it is to leave vulnerabilities like this lying around.

355
00:14:14,359 --> 00:14:17,289
Even with the absolute best of intentions and, you know, high quality

356
00:14:17,289 --> 00:14:21,950
teams or whatever, it's so easy to make it possible to do something.

357
00:14:22,329 --> 00:14:24,760
I mean, like I've accidentally scraped stuff with

358
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,000
Python and took like DOS attack them on accident.

359
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,064
You have to be very careful.

360
00:14:29,064 --> 00:14:32,350
Well, even just one of our, I guess it'll go out after this episode.

361
00:14:32,380 --> 00:14:36,049
We have a, we have an upcoming episode about how Rachel Ray's scraper was

362
00:14:36,050 --> 00:14:41,029
taking down websites and, and just not on, on their fault of like how the

363
00:14:41,029 --> 00:14:45,790
scraper was, uh, created, but how the developers and the architecture wasn't.

364
00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:50,360
Set up well to allow scrapers to hit the website and so that's coming up.

365
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:52,360
I think it'll be at the week after this episode.

366
00:14:52,870 --> 00:14:53,640
So stick around for that.

367
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:58,129
But and yeah, I think that the whole bug bounty process and they I

368
00:14:58,129 --> 00:15:01,459
think they wrote up like a 24 page report giving them all the details

369
00:15:01,459 --> 00:15:04,409
of everything they found, how they found it, what they were doing.

370
00:15:04,669 --> 00:15:08,839
And there's a timeline of July 2024 through December 2024.

371
00:15:08,950 --> 00:15:12,330
2024 and just like everything they did of like,

372
00:15:12,330 --> 00:15:14,570
Oh, this is, I went to the bug bounty process.

373
00:15:14,990 --> 00:15:18,010
I feel a little bad because they only got 200, they got a gift card for

374
00:15:18,020 --> 00:15:22,240
240 at the end of it, which bug bounties are usually a lot more than that.

375
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:23,159
I

376
00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:26,870
don't know, 250 with, with, you know, everything costing

377
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:28,620
a cent, you can get a lot of McDonald's for that.

378
00:15:29,580 --> 00:15:30,840
If they love that vulnerability.

379
00:15:31,690 --> 00:15:33,710
They should have just got the a hundred hash browns.

380
00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:34,750
It would have got more stuff.

381
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,230
Like that's not a good incentive for bug bounties.

382
00:15:38,060 --> 00:15:39,400
So, but it was still a good post.

383
00:15:39,410 --> 00:15:42,550
I enjoyed reading through it and just seeing their process.

384
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:45,430
And it reminds me of like, if you've never done also like go to capture

385
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:49,819
the flag event, there's digital ones that you can just join anytime.

386
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:51,699
Uh, I know Google still does one once a year.

387
00:15:51,699 --> 00:15:54,099
There's like hack the box and all these other ones that you can

388
00:15:54,099 --> 00:15:56,489
find that are just like, Oh, just, just poke around at things.

389
00:15:56,569 --> 00:15:58,829
And these are safe environments where you are

390
00:15:58,829 --> 00:16:01,459
intended to like, what does curl do with this?

391
00:16:01,459 --> 00:16:03,670
What does, you know, yeah, they're really fun.

392
00:16:04,050 --> 00:16:06,490
To hack the box in particular is the one that I like the most.

393
00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,330
So I kind of, on the side, have really

394
00:16:09,330 --> 00:16:11,650
enjoyed learning about this side of computing.

395
00:16:11,650 --> 00:16:12,779
And I'm not, I'm not good.

396
00:16:12,860 --> 00:16:14,709
Like, you know, I, you put me up against like a hack

397
00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,080
the box medium problem and I don't know what I'm doing.

398
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,209
But the, the, the, the curve is quite gentle.

399
00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,400
Like, uh, I think hack the box is a paid service now.

400
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:24,920
I'm not sure if they have a free tier still.

401
00:16:25,010 --> 00:16:26,900
It used to be the case that you had to kind of

402
00:16:26,900 --> 00:16:28,760
hack your way in to make an account as well.

403
00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,959
Like it was very simple, but you had to go and do

404
00:16:30,959 --> 00:16:32,920
a digging in their website source code to get in.

405
00:16:33,295 --> 00:16:36,444
Which was kind of fun, but the, yeah, the learning curve is real nice and they

406
00:16:36,454 --> 00:16:40,485
have good, like most of the freely available boxes, I think we'll have good

407
00:16:40,485 --> 00:16:43,265
write ups if you get stuck and you can read through other people's solutions.

408
00:16:43,294 --> 00:16:45,595
I know on YouTube there's a channel I really like watching is

409
00:16:45,655 --> 00:16:50,124
IPSec, I P P S E C, and he does hack the box walkthroughs of

410
00:16:50,124 --> 00:16:52,834
how he solved each of them, and he's done hundreds of videos.

411
00:16:53,225 --> 00:16:55,285
So yeah, really, really incredible community.

412
00:16:55,814 --> 00:16:56,725
That's so cool.

413
00:16:56,915 --> 00:16:59,105
I'm gonna go look that up later.

414
00:16:59,335 --> 00:17:01,465
I think that would be cool to do with my kids, but I should

415
00:17:01,465 --> 00:17:04,215
probably also not teach them to hack things just yet, so.

416
00:17:04,415 --> 00:17:07,395
But that's like the Rubik's Cube of like the internet, like you

417
00:17:07,395 --> 00:17:12,234
can just sit there and just play around and just hack things.

418
00:17:12,234 --> 00:17:13,764
I feel like that's just so much fun.

419
00:17:13,944 --> 00:17:18,345
Have either of your sets of kids shown an interest in programming yet?

420
00:17:18,945 --> 00:17:20,105
Oh yeah, mine's are nerds.

421
00:17:20,484 --> 00:17:20,964
Mine are not.

422
00:17:21,175 --> 00:17:24,254
Yeah, I think mine are really young still, uh, so my Meldus is five.

423
00:17:24,484 --> 00:17:26,135
But yeah, I think, uh, Ultima Mereldus is a bit older

424
00:17:26,135 --> 00:17:29,025
than that, and is, are they sort of making stuff by now?

425
00:17:29,254 --> 00:17:32,775
Yeah, he uses Scratch, and then PBS Scratch,

426
00:17:32,975 --> 00:17:36,245
and he does a lot of making of games.

427
00:17:36,314 --> 00:17:37,565
He got mad that I wouldn't let him play

428
00:17:37,574 --> 00:17:39,174
Five Nights at Freddy's, so he made his own.

429
00:17:39,364 --> 00:17:42,844
He's like obsessed with gaming and making games.

430
00:17:42,854 --> 00:17:44,624
He's like so many different apps.

431
00:17:44,675 --> 00:17:49,495
He's got, my kids have gotten around almost every like parent controls.

432
00:17:49,524 --> 00:17:52,784
Like at this point they should work for PlayStation and like

433
00:17:52,784 --> 00:17:56,864
Apple because they have outs like until the last update.

434
00:17:57,085 --> 00:17:58,245
for the iPads.

435
00:17:58,504 --> 00:18:03,995
My kid, like, continued to, like, give himself permission to get around the

436
00:18:04,225 --> 00:18:07,845
parental controls of, like, keeping him off the internet, but not to do anything

437
00:18:07,855 --> 00:18:12,035
bad, but to build his own Lego kit because he wants to work for Lego in Denmark.

438
00:18:12,835 --> 00:18:14,824
And he was like, Mom, do I have to move to Denmark?

439
00:18:14,835 --> 00:18:16,215
Can I work from the United States?

440
00:18:16,234 --> 00:18:17,105
And I was like, I don't know.

441
00:18:17,105 --> 00:18:18,335
You keep hacking into things.

442
00:18:18,335 --> 00:18:21,045
You're going to end up either working for the NSA or in jail.

443
00:18:23,955 --> 00:18:26,595
Oh, and, and Justin, you're a bestie.

444
00:18:26,845 --> 00:18:31,195
At four and three, hacked into Fortnite so many times because

445
00:18:31,195 --> 00:18:33,495
he wasn't allowed to play and his brothers were allowed to play.

446
00:18:33,845 --> 00:18:38,724
I blocked it, deleted it, took it off of the library, and that

447
00:18:38,724 --> 00:18:41,745
kid figured out how to download it when I would be in meetings.

448
00:18:42,164 --> 00:18:44,524
And I'd be in like stand up at Amazon, and

449
00:18:44,534 --> 00:18:46,475
he would be like re downloading Fortnite.

450
00:18:46,784 --> 00:18:49,415
at three, right after preschool.

451
00:18:51,004 --> 00:18:53,475
If you don't know what the rules are, you can, you know, you

452
00:18:53,475 --> 00:18:55,434
can figure out a lot of things with some determination, right?

453
00:18:55,445 --> 00:18:57,385
Like kids are so determined.

454
00:18:57,415 --> 00:18:58,185
And they have so much

455
00:18:58,245 --> 00:18:58,655
time.

456
00:18:58,655 --> 00:18:59,014
Okay.

457
00:18:59,014 --> 00:18:59,295
Yeah.

458
00:18:59,584 --> 00:18:59,814
Yeah.

459
00:18:59,935 --> 00:19:03,585
My eldest was super into YouTube and we ended up.

460
00:19:03,910 --> 00:19:06,080
Kind of uninstalling it from his iPad because he was

461
00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,070
getting stressed because YouTube has these things for

462
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:10,340
playables, which I did not know about before I had kids.

463
00:19:10,350 --> 00:19:12,849
So there are games in YouTube and he was

464
00:19:12,849 --> 00:19:14,240
playing them and getting frustrated with them.

465
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:16,820
So we removed it from the iPad and was like, look, this is too much.

466
00:19:16,820 --> 00:19:18,060
We're going to limit your use of this.

467
00:19:18,349 --> 00:19:19,189
And then he.

468
00:19:19,365 --> 00:19:20,945
Figured out how to redownload it, and he

469
00:19:20,945 --> 00:19:22,685
redownloaded it, and we found him playing it again.

470
00:19:22,685 --> 00:19:23,905
We're like, what has happened here?

471
00:19:23,905 --> 00:19:25,685
So we put controls in, so he couldn't do that.

472
00:19:25,814 --> 00:19:27,715
A few days after that, we find he's in Safari.

473
00:19:27,725 --> 00:19:28,885
He's opened YouTube.

474
00:19:28,915 --> 00:19:30,915
com and gone to the Playful section.

475
00:19:32,554 --> 00:19:33,654
I'm not even mad.

476
00:19:33,735 --> 00:19:33,905
Like,

477
00:19:33,915 --> 00:19:34,704
that's great.

478
00:19:34,784 --> 00:19:35,725
I'm really happy

479
00:19:35,734 --> 00:19:36,345
you've done that.

480
00:19:37,195 --> 00:19:41,675
Sam and I were talking before recording, uh, about, like, Things that linkedin

481
00:19:41,685 --> 00:19:44,445
has like features that he didn't know that had live streaming and and whatnot.

482
00:19:44,445 --> 00:19:45,915
But linkedin also has games.

483
00:19:45,995 --> 00:19:46,545
FYI.

484
00:19:46,765 --> 00:19:51,734
So if your son ends up on linkedin, yeah, by the way, he might

485
00:19:51,734 --> 00:19:56,664
end up over with a linkedin thought leader with top games.

486
00:19:57,015 --> 00:19:58,505
My kid came home the other day and decided

487
00:19:58,515 --> 00:19:59,955
he was going to start his own tech company.

488
00:19:59,955 --> 00:20:01,825
And I was like, bro, you have to read and do math.

489
00:20:01,865 --> 00:20:05,475
And he was like, no, I got voice to text to like do my PowerPoint.

490
00:20:05,495 --> 00:20:06,455
And I was like, what are

491
00:20:06,695 --> 00:20:07,815
you starting a company?

492
00:20:08,165 --> 00:20:09,645
You and every other startup right now.

493
00:20:10,434 --> 00:20:12,174
It was a little tech bro ish.

494
00:20:12,195 --> 00:20:16,395
It was like, I was like, we can't go down this road just yet.

495
00:20:18,395 --> 00:20:19,835
He can just do things, you know.

496
00:20:20,115 --> 00:20:22,315
The amount of things I've told him he can't do.

497
00:20:22,979 --> 00:20:26,080
He's come back and been like, but look at how I figured it out.

498
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:30,040
Like, he decided he hated writing and it took too long and it was too hard.

499
00:20:30,379 --> 00:20:32,909
So he just decided he was going to voice attacks everything.

500
00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:38,050
Or like get Alexa to spell things and it's rude being outsmarted

501
00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,480
by a 10 year old that like has your entire personality.

502
00:20:41,660 --> 00:20:44,359
One day I caught him underneath the covers

503
00:20:44,590 --> 00:20:46,860
when he was supposed to be sick, coding.

504
00:20:47,059 --> 00:20:48,870
And then I was like, bro, you faked being

505
00:20:48,870 --> 00:20:50,740
sick so you could write games on scratch.

506
00:20:50,749 --> 00:20:53,080
And he's like, but I got like three downloads on this one.

507
00:20:53,080 --> 00:20:53,640
And I was like,

508
00:20:53,660 --> 00:20:54,550
doing it for the clout.

509
00:20:55,189 --> 00:20:56,199
No, but he really does.

510
00:20:56,199 --> 00:20:57,270
He has a ton of downloads.

511
00:20:57,300 --> 00:21:00,449
One of them has, like, 150, and I don't even know how he got an

512
00:21:00,449 --> 00:21:03,560
account, because I did not make him one, and I think he asked Alexa.

513
00:21:03,699 --> 00:21:06,239
Going back to the speed of communication, like, speed

514
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,429
of reading and things like that, like, I have long

515
00:21:08,639 --> 00:21:11,449
thought about this, about human communication in general.

516
00:21:11,959 --> 00:21:14,409
What do you think about how fast computers can communicate with each other?

517
00:21:14,409 --> 00:21:18,100
Like, speaking is really slow, and reading is really slow.

518
00:21:18,149 --> 00:21:20,250
These things are, it's, it's wild.

519
00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:26,314
Like, imagining this kind of counterfactual world where We can communicate with

520
00:21:26,314 --> 00:21:29,435
each other at like the same speed computers can, you're talking about gigabit

521
00:21:29,834 --> 00:21:33,185
text rates of communication, like what would change, how would things look?

522
00:21:33,274 --> 00:21:35,735
I can't even imagine, like it would be incredible if we

523
00:21:35,735 --> 00:21:40,074
could perfectly communicate ideas at that rate, basically

524
00:21:40,074 --> 00:21:42,164
instantaneously, it would be such a different world.

525
00:21:42,535 --> 00:21:46,035
In many ways, that's when you have a coworker that you have been

526
00:21:46,035 --> 00:21:48,525
working with for a long time or someone you like if you play a sport

527
00:21:48,525 --> 00:21:51,265
with someone, you just have this intuition about what they're doing.

528
00:21:51,305 --> 00:21:55,274
Like you get this moment of we can communicate just because we know what the

529
00:21:55,274 --> 00:21:58,854
other person is going to do because we're already doing the same thing, right?

530
00:21:58,855 --> 00:22:00,674
Like there's that already happens with a lot of people.

531
00:22:00,675 --> 00:22:04,165
But also you remind me of like Crystal was on the show in January and she

532
00:22:04,165 --> 00:22:07,785
uses screen readers and she's like 3x speed for screen readers, right?

533
00:22:07,785 --> 00:22:11,434
It's like, wow, that's when I try to do anything that's over 1.

534
00:22:11,434 --> 00:22:13,155
5, I'm like, I cannot comprehend what's going on.

535
00:22:13,155 --> 00:22:17,175
But like humans absolutely can do that and they can understand

536
00:22:17,175 --> 00:22:21,245
it and they can just adapt to that faster mode of processing.

537
00:22:21,245 --> 00:22:21,674
You know.

538
00:22:22,945 --> 00:22:26,345
So when I was working at Nebula, one of the things that we did just among

539
00:22:26,345 --> 00:22:29,035
the backend team, which was just four of us, uh, we would occasionally

540
00:22:29,035 --> 00:22:31,795
just do that little watch parties, like whatever the newest Nebula

541
00:22:31,795 --> 00:22:34,364
original was, we would get together as a team and we'd watch it.

542
00:22:34,805 --> 00:22:36,324
It was really nice little team building exercise.

543
00:22:36,324 --> 00:22:40,084
We kind of, you know, talk about it in DMs while we were watching it.

544
00:22:40,415 --> 00:22:43,725
And we learned, the youngest member of the team, I think she was

545
00:22:43,725 --> 00:22:46,034
sort of mid twenties, we learned that she had been watching all

546
00:22:46,034 --> 00:22:49,395
these things on 2X, and she was like, gradually getting ahead of us.

547
00:22:49,705 --> 00:22:52,465
And I tried watching on 2X and keeping up with her, and I

548
00:22:52,655 --> 00:22:55,445
realized my brain really wasn't processing at that speed.

549
00:22:55,794 --> 00:22:59,009
And I talked to a few people about this, and you can train yourself.

550
00:22:59,010 --> 00:23:00,470
to listen to that.

551
00:23:00,470 --> 00:23:01,710
Of course you can, because people do it.

552
00:23:01,980 --> 00:23:05,670
So I did gradually train myself, and now I find 2x quite comfortable.

553
00:23:06,020 --> 00:23:09,330
And I was telling a friend about this just a few weeks ago, and he's like, you

554
00:23:09,330 --> 00:23:12,780
are an adult, why do you care about the speed at which you listen to things?

555
00:23:12,780 --> 00:23:16,645
I can consume information at twice the The rate that I

556
00:23:16,935 --> 00:23:18,895
could before, it's just like a really good thing now.

557
00:23:18,895 --> 00:23:20,774
I listen to books at twice the rate I did

558
00:23:20,774 --> 00:23:23,024
previously with the same comprehension.

559
00:23:23,024 --> 00:23:24,864
It feels like a good skill to learn to me.

560
00:23:24,865 --> 00:23:25,214
I

561
00:23:25,215 --> 00:23:28,114
mean, like speed reading, like that was a big thing for how long, right?

562
00:23:28,205 --> 00:23:31,254
Like people were like, I have to be able to read and consume information faster.

563
00:23:31,254 --> 00:23:33,384
And there was training and apps and all these things that

564
00:23:33,384 --> 00:23:35,635
would teach you how to speed read faster and all this stuff.

565
00:23:35,635 --> 00:23:37,885
And like, it's just, it's a similar thing where it's like, how can

566
00:23:37,895 --> 00:23:41,975
we get more of this more input faster and still retain comprehension?

567
00:23:41,975 --> 00:23:42,114
Right.

568
00:23:42,114 --> 00:23:43,034
It's like the, one of the things.

569
00:23:43,764 --> 00:23:45,884
People already do speed reading now, because I mean, if you look

570
00:23:45,884 --> 00:23:50,164
at how people read, they skip certain words and just kind of

571
00:23:50,164 --> 00:23:54,365
like, because once your brain gets used to reading in that manner.

572
00:23:54,555 --> 00:23:58,904
I've become really conscious of the way that I read things

573
00:23:58,925 --> 00:24:02,295
ever since I began writing kind of like seriously, so to speak.

574
00:24:02,850 --> 00:24:06,340
I, I'm very conscious of just the huge amounts of stuff I

575
00:24:06,360 --> 00:24:11,440
skip over and the, if it's a code related post, my first

576
00:24:11,450 --> 00:24:13,840
pass is almost always just looking at the code blocks.

577
00:24:14,259 --> 00:24:16,820
And if I feel I need to read the rest of the pros, I will,

578
00:24:17,009 --> 00:24:19,740
especially if I'm looking for like a solution to a problem

579
00:24:19,780 --> 00:24:22,040
or a bug or something like that, I just care about the code.

580
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,060
And if I usually from the code, you can infer what's

581
00:24:24,060 --> 00:24:26,090
going on and then you read the rest of the texts.

582
00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:28,350
But generally speaking, I don't read top

583
00:24:28,350 --> 00:24:30,000
left to bottom right, every single word.

584
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,304
And I think a lot of people write like that and It's a bit of a trap.

585
00:24:34,314 --> 00:24:36,235
I think you do need to structure your writing in

586
00:24:36,235 --> 00:24:38,904
a way that it's friendly to being skipped over.

587
00:24:38,934 --> 00:24:42,414
So little bits of overlap, really descriptive headings, which is

588
00:24:42,414 --> 00:24:44,704
something I've historically not been very good at in my own writing.

589
00:24:44,704 --> 00:24:48,744
I think I need to get better at logically separating the parts of my posts.

590
00:24:49,230 --> 00:24:52,280
The way that you think of everything is both creative

591
00:24:52,630 --> 00:24:56,100
and super engineering, and my brain just loves it.

592
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:59,190
Like, you're like, and then you have to make it aesthetic and all this

593
00:24:59,190 --> 00:25:03,109
stuff, but then you're also thinking about how to make it logical and how

594
00:25:03,110 --> 00:25:06,070
to make your writing work for people's brains, which is really impressive.

595
00:25:06,620 --> 00:25:09,179
It's uh, it's certainly a process, I, this is gonna sound

596
00:25:09,179 --> 00:25:10,860
really terrible, but I'm gonna say it out loud anyway.

597
00:25:10,909 --> 00:25:13,939
I think most people that write online aren't very good, and uh, I

598
00:25:13,939 --> 00:25:17,419
would count myself as that, like, absolutely, and I still am very

599
00:25:17,419 --> 00:25:20,199
much learning, but I think most of what you write online is written

600
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:23,419
by people that aren't good at writing, because I think most people

601
00:25:23,419 --> 00:25:26,599
aren't good at writing, right, so it can be kind of challenging.

602
00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:32,490
Learning just through what you see day to day, I think specific practice

603
00:25:32,510 --> 00:25:35,350
and, and reading things by people that do have really good track

604
00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:38,580
records, like I've read several books on writing and I've read a lot of.

605
00:25:39,215 --> 00:25:42,725
Stuff by people I know are good writers online, trying to get a

606
00:25:42,725 --> 00:25:45,605
feel for their style and trying to find pieces of work where they're

607
00:25:45,765 --> 00:25:49,655
specifically pointing out the parts of writing they focus on.

608
00:25:49,954 --> 00:25:53,085
There's a, I can't remember the person's name any now, but there's a great link.

609
00:25:53,114 --> 00:25:56,414
I think the post is just called how I edit or something like that.

610
00:25:56,414 --> 00:25:58,115
And it's all the things they think about while

611
00:25:58,115 --> 00:25:59,705
they're going through and editing a piece of work.

612
00:26:00,285 --> 00:26:00,635
Basically.

613
00:26:00,635 --> 00:26:00,805
Yeah.

614
00:26:00,805 --> 00:26:01,485
Writing is tough.

615
00:26:01,515 --> 00:26:03,754
I think it requires way more thought than most people put into it.

616
00:26:04,405 --> 00:26:05,175
Autumn, do you have a link?

617
00:26:05,315 --> 00:26:05,625
Sure.

618
00:26:05,635 --> 00:26:05,645
I

619
00:26:06,155 --> 00:26:07,034
have a link.

620
00:26:07,420 --> 00:26:09,710
Well, first, what, what Sam was saying is right.

621
00:26:09,710 --> 00:26:13,100
It's like a podcast, which like, I think everybody has a podcast,

622
00:26:13,420 --> 00:26:16,700
us, like everybody has a podcast and everybody has like a blog.

623
00:26:17,419 --> 00:26:21,980
And I think sometimes it's good to have a blog or a podcast or a newsletter,

624
00:26:21,980 --> 00:26:25,369
but the fact that everybody's using AI to write half of them, it's

625
00:26:25,370 --> 00:26:31,370
just like a just overwhelming amount of the same content over and over.

626
00:26:31,430 --> 00:26:33,460
And sometimes I think people just like to hear it.

627
00:26:33,814 --> 00:26:37,774
themselves talk or just write random things and it's so much content.

628
00:26:38,164 --> 00:26:39,874
I saw something just before coming on here.

629
00:26:40,004 --> 00:26:42,324
I can't remember where I saw it, but there's a podcast like whiskey.

630
00:26:42,484 --> 00:26:44,384
fm. Uh, I'd never heard of it before and it's a

631
00:26:44,384 --> 00:26:47,014
tech podcast like, and has like a whiskey theme.

632
00:26:47,014 --> 00:26:47,604
I'd never heard it.

633
00:26:47,685 --> 00:26:49,204
And I saw, just saw on their feed something

634
00:26:49,215 --> 00:26:51,965
like the, the key to podcasting is consistency.

635
00:26:52,004 --> 00:26:54,114
And I, I've heard this phrase in other mediums as well.

636
00:26:54,114 --> 00:26:55,634
Like the key to blogging is consistency.

637
00:26:55,634 --> 00:26:57,475
The key to YouTube is consistency.

638
00:26:57,475 --> 00:26:59,975
I'm sure consistency does not hurt.

639
00:27:00,404 --> 00:27:05,645
I am not sure I agree with that as a broader premise, like this idea that you

640
00:27:05,645 --> 00:27:09,275
need to produce like an irregular cadence, like frequently and things like that.

641
00:27:09,385 --> 00:27:11,695
It is something I've specifically not been doing.

642
00:27:11,705 --> 00:27:13,385
And I've spoken about this with other people as well.

643
00:27:13,444 --> 00:27:19,405
And I think there's probably a bit more value with some types of content where.

644
00:27:19,735 --> 00:27:22,165
If you were going to produce like a post a week for 10 weeks,

645
00:27:22,485 --> 00:27:25,335
the overall traction of those posts is probably going to be low.

646
00:27:25,335 --> 00:27:28,065
Like, unless you're writing about something very novel or you're

647
00:27:28,124 --> 00:27:31,295
doing something nobody else is doing, if it's just your opinions on

648
00:27:31,305 --> 00:27:33,615
things, it's almost certainly going to be quite low traffic stuff.

649
00:27:33,815 --> 00:27:36,735
Whereas if you spent 10 full weeks, like really thinking

650
00:27:36,735 --> 00:27:39,335
about a topic and going deep on it and putting huge

651
00:27:39,335 --> 00:27:41,995
amounts of effort into the presentation and you produced.

652
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:46,409
something incredibly detailed, quality, aesthetic,

653
00:27:46,610 --> 00:27:49,780
really, really obviously high effort piece of work.

654
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:52,629
You're probably going to get way more traction with that

655
00:27:52,639 --> 00:27:55,599
than you would have done with the 10 posts combined, I think.

656
00:27:55,989 --> 00:27:59,349
So I think for, for a lot of people, there is an argument

657
00:27:59,370 --> 00:28:02,360
to be made where I think more people should be trying.

658
00:28:02,725 --> 00:28:06,055
less frequent, higher effort pieces of work.

659
00:28:06,065 --> 00:28:08,045
And I don't see that many people doing it.

660
00:28:08,045 --> 00:28:11,065
And I I'm looking for them all the time because I, I

661
00:28:11,065 --> 00:28:13,155
really would like to talk to anybody doing this kind of

662
00:28:13,155 --> 00:28:15,625
thing, but it really doesn't feel as many of us out there.

663
00:28:15,755 --> 00:28:17,764
And I think people are sleeping on it.

664
00:28:18,294 --> 00:28:19,174
I wholeheartedly agree.

665
00:28:19,355 --> 00:28:22,094
Like everybody, I feel like we're just in this like time

666
00:28:22,094 --> 00:28:25,045
of the influencers and everything is about just like.

667
00:28:25,465 --> 00:28:28,075
Creating so much content and they think that consistency

668
00:28:28,075 --> 00:28:30,625
is everything because for one they think they're going to

669
00:28:30,625 --> 00:28:33,725
get paid for that and they think it just makes you better.

670
00:28:33,725 --> 00:28:36,155
But if you don't have anything interesting or unique to talk

671
00:28:36,165 --> 00:28:40,594
about, you're just polluting the rest of the content like market.

672
00:28:40,615 --> 00:28:41,294
You know what I mean?

673
00:28:41,485 --> 00:28:42,444
And I think that.

674
00:28:42,844 --> 00:28:46,725
Just, I've gotten, people have asked me to be like co writers

675
00:28:46,725 --> 00:28:49,014
or, you know, stuff for like newsletters or something.

676
00:28:49,024 --> 00:28:51,534
I'm like, if you're just going to generate it with AI, I don't want to do it.

677
00:28:51,534 --> 00:28:55,264
Like, and if we don't have anything interesting or different to say than

678
00:28:55,394 --> 00:28:58,514
what other people are doing, like, it's okay if like, I think, you know,

679
00:28:58,514 --> 00:29:01,964
when it comes to like tech concepts, they're all like the same stuff over

680
00:29:01,964 --> 00:29:04,925
and over again, but we're just saying like how you would solve it or how.

681
00:29:05,165 --> 00:29:07,705
We're solving it in a different way or how we found those tools.

682
00:29:07,715 --> 00:29:08,175
That's okay.

683
00:29:08,175 --> 00:29:12,535
But if you're just like cranking out the same exact opinions

684
00:29:12,535 --> 00:29:15,225
as everybody else, or just doing it to hear yourself talk,

685
00:29:15,225 --> 00:29:18,575
or just doing it because you want to make content that week.

686
00:29:19,155 --> 00:29:22,264
I mean, it's okay if you want to just do what you want to do, but I think

687
00:29:22,264 --> 00:29:26,375
sometimes people just do it to be like a tech influencer or whatever.

688
00:29:27,395 --> 00:29:29,284
I mean, I will say that a lot of people measure their success

689
00:29:29,304 --> 00:29:32,645
against that, the views and the followers and whatnot, which

690
00:29:32,645 --> 00:29:35,745
is absolutely a thing that's happening over and over again.

691
00:29:35,764 --> 00:29:39,024
And those systems definitely reward some sort of consistency.

692
00:29:39,435 --> 00:29:43,635
I will say for myself, that the best thing about having a consistent cadence

693
00:29:43,685 --> 00:29:47,915
of any sort of content writing was it forced me to have a cadence for learning.

694
00:29:48,385 --> 00:29:53,024
And as my cadence and habits for learning kind of solidified for probably

695
00:29:53,445 --> 00:29:57,534
10 or 15 years, every Sunday night, I would just go through my pocket queue.

696
00:29:58,115 --> 00:30:01,775
I would just read what I saved in pocket for later for that, from that week.

697
00:30:01,785 --> 00:30:04,555
And I would read it and I didn't have a backlog of pocket stuff.

698
00:30:04,865 --> 00:30:07,745
And I was learning at a regular cadence because it became

699
00:30:07,745 --> 00:30:11,275
part of the habit of me in my weekly cadence of life.

700
00:30:11,545 --> 00:30:14,015
And it didn't become like a, I need to go learn a bunch

701
00:30:14,015 --> 00:30:15,795
of stuff, or I need to go to a class or I need to do that.

702
00:30:15,795 --> 00:30:19,265
But no, I'm just like the constant slow progression for things

703
00:30:19,265 --> 00:30:22,575
and making that a habit for myself made it so much easier.

704
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,130
To then create stuff because I was just constantly

705
00:30:26,130 --> 00:30:28,250
learning without having to put in a lot of effort.

706
00:30:28,260 --> 00:30:31,660
And so I do think that the having the habit of doing the learning like I do

707
00:30:31,670 --> 00:30:35,900
think that, you know, deep diving into something really deeply and learning

708
00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:40,510
it expertly and then creating something out of that is is a great thing too.

709
00:30:40,690 --> 00:30:44,990
But I feel like you need to have the just the common day to

710
00:30:44,990 --> 00:30:47,960
day or week to week practice of like, Oh yeah, it just is.

711
00:30:48,175 --> 00:30:50,235
This is how I'm, or when I'm learning that this

712
00:30:50,235 --> 00:30:53,605
is my flow of how do I save an article for later?

713
00:30:53,605 --> 00:30:55,845
I'm not going to say like, if you're leaving tabs open

714
00:30:55,845 --> 00:30:57,855
and not visiting them, like, you're not learning from it.

715
00:30:57,855 --> 00:30:58,075
Right.

716
00:30:58,075 --> 00:31:00,495
It's just like, like I always had to, I, every week,

717
00:31:00,765 --> 00:31:02,935
like on Fridays, I would try to close all my tabs.

718
00:31:03,025 --> 00:31:05,915
I was like, that was like just my cadence of like, I would close my tab.

719
00:31:05,915 --> 00:31:07,905
So if I wasn't going to read it, I closed it.

720
00:31:07,975 --> 00:31:10,375
I didn't care if I was going to read it, it went to pocket and I knew

721
00:31:10,405 --> 00:31:13,305
Sunday, I would probably pick it up and I would finish reading it.

722
00:31:13,325 --> 00:31:15,335
Like Sunday night was just my time after kids go to bed.

723
00:31:15,335 --> 00:31:16,365
I'm just going to read for a while.

724
00:31:16,415 --> 00:31:19,435
And like that cadence, I think is super helpful for just people's

725
00:31:19,445 --> 00:31:22,915
habits, not necessarily on the, on the creator side, but on the

726
00:31:23,505 --> 00:31:27,365
learning, how you learn and how you like to learn and where you have

727
00:31:27,365 --> 00:31:31,625
space to provide for yourself to do those things is really important.

728
00:31:33,835 --> 00:31:35,515
I agree with everything that you just said,

729
00:31:35,545 --> 00:31:37,355
and I think the difference is the goal.

730
00:31:37,455 --> 00:31:41,615
So if your goal is to learn writing regularly, and in the

731
00:31:41,615 --> 00:31:43,375
understanding that almost nobody's going to read it, right?

732
00:31:43,395 --> 00:31:44,115
And that's fine.

733
00:31:44,125 --> 00:31:45,045
There's nothing wrong with that.

734
00:31:45,045 --> 00:31:47,335
You are learning something, and you are

735
00:31:47,525 --> 00:31:49,895
building up those writing muscles as you go.

736
00:31:49,935 --> 00:31:53,115
Like, you're putting words on paper, and as long as you, I think,

737
00:31:53,205 --> 00:31:56,005
make that deliberately, that's why you're doing it, and you also

738
00:31:56,005 --> 00:31:59,145
have a deliberate process where you are reading through what you're

739
00:31:59,145 --> 00:32:01,845
writing, and you're being critical about what you're writing, and

740
00:32:01,845 --> 00:32:03,995
you're thinking about structure, and you're thinking about flow.

741
00:32:04,105 --> 00:32:06,645
That's all fine, but what I see people doing is doing that,

742
00:32:06,835 --> 00:32:08,975
and then getting real frustrated that no one's reading it.

743
00:32:09,095 --> 00:32:10,405
And it's like, yeah, of course no one's reading it.

744
00:32:10,405 --> 00:32:11,505
Like, there's nothing novel about it.

745
00:32:11,775 --> 00:32:13,835
Whatever said to that, because like, I only write for yourself.

746
00:32:13,875 --> 00:32:15,765
Like, if you're writing for the views and the clicks and stuff

747
00:32:15,765 --> 00:32:17,495
like that, like, you're, you're, you're going to get burned out.

748
00:32:17,505 --> 00:32:19,459
It doesn't matter, like, that side of it.

749
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:20,860
I made this very deliberate

750
00:32:20,860 --> 00:32:25,050
shift at the beginning of 2023 from like writing for myself and then there

751
00:32:25,050 --> 00:32:28,030
was an aspect of like I was, you know, frustrated nobody was reading it.

752
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,120
I made this real shift and like I really,

753
00:32:30,130 --> 00:32:32,840
really want to write things people want to read.

754
00:32:33,220 --> 00:32:34,230
How do I do that?

755
00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,970
And that's why I started going down that road.

756
00:32:36,270 --> 00:32:39,420
But I think both of what you're saying is so very different than

757
00:32:39,420 --> 00:32:43,180
just being like, I mean, this is the nicest way possible, but like,

758
00:32:43,250 --> 00:32:46,320
we know that there are people that just write to be like a thought

759
00:32:46,330 --> 00:32:49,300
leader or whatever, and they're not learning anything like, you know

760
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:52,140
what I mean, like learning something and sharing what you're learning.

761
00:32:52,150 --> 00:32:53,210
I don't care if nobody reads it.

762
00:32:53,210 --> 00:32:53,990
That's still cool.

763
00:32:54,070 --> 00:32:57,200
Like I've learned so much from random blog posts where somebody

764
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,620
was learning something and I'm stuck somewhere and you Google it.

765
00:33:00,940 --> 00:33:05,360
And then you find how this person built this thing and they're in the same,

766
00:33:05,370 --> 00:33:08,430
having the same problem as you, or, you know, they're starting out somewhere.

767
00:33:08,730 --> 00:33:11,500
That's still interesting because it tells you like, you're telling like

768
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:16,240
your path of learning and how you looked up this thing and got this book.

769
00:33:16,250 --> 00:33:21,470
That's still much different than writing to write, like just writing thought

770
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,720
leaderships and opinions to either piss people off or, you know what I mean?

771
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:26,370
Like, it's just.

772
00:33:26,690 --> 00:33:29,890
Rage clicks or even when it's not a rage click,

773
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:32,810
it's spicy opinions or just, you know what I mean?

774
00:33:32,810 --> 00:33:37,070
Like now if you have a legit spicy opinions, like I'll read that for sure.

775
00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:41,250
But like, sometimes it's just having them to have them.

776
00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:42,000
You know what I mean?

777
00:33:42,010 --> 00:33:42,540
Like, I mean, clickbait

778
00:33:42,740 --> 00:33:43,340
works.

779
00:33:43,750 --> 00:33:44,570
That's exactly what I was gonna say.

780
00:33:45,100 --> 00:33:45,340
Yeah.

781
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,040
It's over indexed by the algorithms in the

782
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:47,310
same way

783
00:33:47,310 --> 00:33:47,420
that

784
00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:48,640
consistency is in my opinion.

785
00:33:48,690 --> 00:33:50,650
Discovery and everything else is it.

786
00:33:50,975 --> 00:33:53,235
Leans towards allowing people to whatever people are

787
00:33:53,235 --> 00:33:55,125
clicking on, that's what we're going to feed them more of,

788
00:33:55,195 --> 00:33:56,385
but they're different, right?

789
00:33:56,395 --> 00:33:58,295
So that's still different than learning that's

790
00:33:58,295 --> 00:34:00,675
different than having a real genuine opinion.

791
00:34:00,675 --> 00:34:04,405
And like, for instance, like when me, you and Tim are in the same

792
00:34:04,405 --> 00:34:07,245
room, you guys are going to argue for on prem and I'm going to be

793
00:34:07,245 --> 00:34:11,255
like, but cloud has like, but those are all legitimate, like opinions.

794
00:34:11,535 --> 00:34:12,235
You know what I mean?

795
00:34:12,625 --> 00:34:15,665
From all of our experiences or whatever, you know, like people that's

796
00:34:15,665 --> 00:34:18,275
like, if it's really your opinion and that's it, like, go for it.

797
00:34:18,825 --> 00:34:21,945
But if you're just pretending to have an opinion to

798
00:34:21,945 --> 00:34:24,255
get someone to click on it, that's like disingenuine.

799
00:34:24,325 --> 00:34:24,945
You know what I mean?

800
00:34:25,235 --> 00:34:26,925
That disingenuity annoys me.

801
00:34:27,045 --> 00:34:29,335
And it's something I love about Aaron Francis.

802
00:34:29,405 --> 00:34:32,125
I know when he says something, it's what he thinks.

803
00:34:32,565 --> 00:34:35,595
And it's what he believes and like, there's, I'm

804
00:34:35,595 --> 00:34:37,265
not going to say there's so few people that do that.

805
00:34:37,265 --> 00:34:38,965
I actually think the majority of people do that.

806
00:34:39,095 --> 00:34:44,985
It's just, I think a lot of people that get big end up not doing that.

807
00:34:45,015 --> 00:34:46,685
And it's kind of hard to know where they stand on things.

808
00:34:46,685 --> 00:34:47,585
That's why I love Kelsey

809
00:34:47,635 --> 00:34:49,725
Hightower because when Kelsey says something's good or

810
00:34:49,725 --> 00:34:52,635
bad, I trust that he really thinks it's good or bad.

811
00:34:52,705 --> 00:34:53,375
You know what I mean?

812
00:34:53,375 --> 00:34:53,685
Like,

813
00:34:53,875 --> 00:34:56,275
like to your point, exactly like Kelsey and a lot of people that

814
00:34:56,275 --> 00:34:59,165
we value the opinion, they know when they don't have an opinion.

815
00:34:59,405 --> 00:35:01,015
And they're not going to talk about it, right?

816
00:35:01,015 --> 00:35:03,975
They're just like, I don't like Kelsey right now is like, I'm just skipping AI.

817
00:35:04,085 --> 00:35:05,745
Like, I'm not going to do the AI thing.

818
00:35:05,755 --> 00:35:07,665
Cause I just, I don't want to be part of it.

819
00:35:07,665 --> 00:35:08,765
I don't really have an opinion on it.

820
00:35:08,795 --> 00:35:09,265
It's fine.

821
00:35:09,275 --> 00:35:11,225
Like you go do whatever you want to do, whatever.

822
00:35:11,225 --> 00:35:12,735
He's not, he's not outspoken about this thing.

823
00:35:12,735 --> 00:35:15,895
He was very outspoken about like Bitcoin and crypto is like, this is bad.

824
00:35:15,905 --> 00:35:17,225
Like this is a bad thing.

825
00:35:17,495 --> 00:35:20,905
And, and he had to back away from it for, you know, for

826
00:35:20,905 --> 00:35:23,935
all the hate and, and things that were happening to him.

827
00:35:23,935 --> 00:35:25,055
Because he was wrong

828
00:35:25,055 --> 00:35:25,464
though.

829
00:35:25,755 --> 00:35:26,085
No.

830
00:35:26,415 --> 00:35:26,775
Absolutely.

831
00:35:26,775 --> 00:35:29,955
Like it was just like he, his opinion, it was his opinion and, and he was

832
00:35:29,955 --> 00:35:32,445
outspoken about for a while, and then if he doesn't have opinion, it's fine.

833
00:35:32,445 --> 00:35:33,380
And those people are, that's

834
00:35:33,380 --> 00:35:34,060
what I'm saying of respect.

835
00:35:34,060 --> 00:35:36,195
And people will just jump on the fricking like

836
00:35:36,375 --> 00:35:38,805
train of what everybody's upset this week.

837
00:35:38,810 --> 00:35:39,615
Like, like okay.

838
00:35:39,615 --> 00:35:42,495
Obviously we're getting a lot of news and we're still upset every week.

839
00:35:42,495 --> 00:35:42,915
Yes.

840
00:35:43,185 --> 00:35:47,405
But sometimes it's just like, Web3 is amazing and then this thing's

841
00:35:47,405 --> 00:35:50,285
amazing and then like look at, or like, some people have really

842
00:35:50,285 --> 00:35:54,395
good opinions, but they write like there's a few people that.

843
00:35:54,910 --> 00:35:58,360
I think are really popular in infrastructure and they write like these

844
00:35:58,390 --> 00:36:01,770
opinion things and their opinions are actually good but the way that

845
00:36:01,770 --> 00:36:05,970
they write the titles make you mad before you even get there and then

846
00:36:05,970 --> 00:36:08,970
it's like to bait you into reading and I'm like bro I like your opinion I

847
00:36:08,970 --> 00:36:12,609
would have read it anyways we didn't have to do all this like you know I

848
00:36:12,610 --> 00:36:15,690
have a lot of respect for those people I don't tend to read it or enjoy it

849
00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:18,080
but I have a lot of respect for people that get into that game because it's

850
00:36:18,100 --> 00:36:22,270
really it's a really hard content creator train to get on board with because

851
00:36:22,270 --> 00:36:27,025
you have to be on the ball all the time and your opinions are going to annoy

852
00:36:27,025 --> 00:36:31,605
a lot of people and you're going to be constantly barraged with negativity.

853
00:36:31,605 --> 00:36:33,275
I couldn't, I couldn't personally do it.

854
00:36:33,285 --> 00:36:36,855
Like, all of my stuff is very intentionally devoid of opinion.

855
00:36:37,125 --> 00:36:40,925
It's not just devoid of opinion, it's like, it gives me the warm and fuzzies.

856
00:36:41,085 --> 00:36:47,155
Like, when like, half of like, the world is rage baiting and like

857
00:36:47,305 --> 00:36:50,955
angry and like i'm just like like i go on blue sky and i'm like oh

858
00:36:51,025 --> 00:36:54,425
god what is it going to be today and then sam posts this and it's like

859
00:36:54,425 --> 00:36:57,745
something adorable or like you know what i mean like artsy and i'm just

860
00:36:57,745 --> 00:37:03,574
like one bright light because like everything else sucks right now i

861
00:37:03,655 --> 00:37:06,925
think some of the unsung heroes of social media are the people that just

862
00:37:06,955 --> 00:37:10,785
retweet stuff that's really high quality they never post anything but all of

863
00:37:10,785 --> 00:37:14,425
their retweets are incredible i follow this there's two people i specifically

864
00:37:14,445 --> 00:37:18,105
have in mind Um, and I follow them and they post almost nothing, but

865
00:37:18,115 --> 00:37:21,695
their, their retweets are of the best quality I, I could possibly imagine.

866
00:37:21,735 --> 00:37:26,445
I, I've seen people kind of dunk on people like that, like, Oh, like, if

867
00:37:26,445 --> 00:37:28,955
you're not going to get involved in the conversation, why are you even here?

868
00:37:28,995 --> 00:37:30,575
Like, do you have any original thoughts?

869
00:37:30,605 --> 00:37:31,605
And I'm like, no, you're missing the point.

870
00:37:31,655 --> 00:37:31,805
They're

871
00:37:31,805 --> 00:37:35,405
sharing like good stuff and helping you providing a service.

872
00:37:35,525 --> 00:37:35,855
Yeah.

873
00:37:35,855 --> 00:37:38,625
Like it's like putting you on to like the new cool stuff of the day.

874
00:37:38,685 --> 00:37:39,325
That's really cool.

875
00:37:39,325 --> 00:37:39,395
People

876
00:37:39,395 --> 00:37:41,185
have newsletters that are basically doing the same thing.

877
00:37:41,385 --> 00:37:42,315
That's what a newsletter is.

878
00:37:42,315 --> 00:37:43,775
It's like a retweet in your email.

879
00:37:44,625 --> 00:37:45,335
That's what I'm saying.

880
00:37:45,335 --> 00:37:49,365
Like some newsletters, you get really good stuff from like, yeah, absolutely.

881
00:37:49,395 --> 00:37:49,905
And it's just like

882
00:37:49,915 --> 00:37:50,855
boost other people's stuff.

883
00:37:50,895 --> 00:37:51,425
And it's great.

884
00:37:51,755 --> 00:37:53,625
I love the lab notes newsletter for that.

885
00:37:53,625 --> 00:37:53,935
Sorry.

886
00:37:54,525 --> 00:37:57,065
Shifting gears here and this live stream, we're supposed to have a game.

887
00:37:57,355 --> 00:37:59,085
The goal of the game is autumn.

888
00:37:59,085 --> 00:37:59,995
You are playing this.

889
00:38:00,235 --> 00:38:01,755
We have our guests and we're going to play.

890
00:38:01,765 --> 00:38:03,035
It's usually multiple choice.

891
00:38:03,195 --> 00:38:07,065
It's, it's usually kind of ridiculous and it's, it's somewhat technology themes.

892
00:38:07,375 --> 00:38:08,435
Uh, we like to have.

893
00:38:08,555 --> 00:38:10,125
Sponsors for this, but this week, if you were

894
00:38:10,125 --> 00:38:11,615
listening to this episode, you are the sponsor.

895
00:38:11,635 --> 00:38:13,015
Thank you for sponsoring this episode.

896
00:38:13,415 --> 00:38:14,295
Uh, please share.

897
00:38:14,635 --> 00:38:16,515
This episode with someone share a link,

898
00:38:16,735 --> 00:38:19,215
read, read, retweet it, repost it wherever.

899
00:38:19,255 --> 00:38:21,745
So just share it out there and just let other people know that you

900
00:38:21,745 --> 00:38:25,815
enjoyed the episode and the game is, is like I said, it's always

901
00:38:25,815 --> 00:38:28,655
something that I make late at night when I'm not thinking clearly.

902
00:38:29,015 --> 00:38:32,745
To see that face he's making, Sam, we should be so worried.

903
00:38:32,815 --> 00:38:37,795
This one is called the Fang Gang and it is about Facebook, Amazon,

904
00:38:37,805 --> 00:38:42,055
Apple, Netflix, Google, the top five tech stocks, which also people,

905
00:38:42,085 --> 00:38:47,200
if you want to use the new names With meta and alphabet fine.

906
00:38:47,220 --> 00:38:50,300
We just call that man, uh, something.

907
00:38:50,300 --> 00:38:51,980
I don't know, like it's just three A's in

908
00:38:51,980 --> 00:38:54,940
there, but anytime, anytime in this game.

909
00:38:54,940 --> 00:38:57,330
So we're, we're going to, we're going to take one of those five

910
00:38:57,330 --> 00:39:00,670
companies and you're going to guess something around that company.

911
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,460
Uh, we're gonna try to put them in order for things such as like, when,

912
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:08,080
when did the company start, which company started first out of Fang.

913
00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,370
And that one might be, if you, if you know a little

914
00:39:10,370 --> 00:39:12,550
bit of history, like Apple is clearly the first one.

915
00:39:12,790 --> 00:39:14,730
Apple started in 76, 1976.

916
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:15,010
Why

917
00:39:15,010 --> 00:39:17,290
don't you take the one question that I know like the answer to.

918
00:39:17,290 --> 00:39:18,229
That's right, that's right.

919
00:39:18,230 --> 00:39:18,680
I gave you that one.

920
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:21,520
So, so, and this is now a question for both of you.

921
00:39:21,530 --> 00:39:22,640
Who started next?

922
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:26,240
Who was the second company out of Fang that started?

923
00:39:26,810 --> 00:39:27,420
Amazon.

924
00:39:28,050 --> 00:39:29,800
So I think I wouldn't guess

925
00:39:29,890 --> 00:39:30,240
Amazon.

926
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:31,250
I would guess Microsoft.

927
00:39:31,470 --> 00:39:33,380
But Microsoft isn't one of them, is it?

928
00:39:33,530 --> 00:39:34,260
No, it's not.

929
00:39:35,580 --> 00:39:36,830
Oh, I thought we were going with them.

930
00:39:36,940 --> 00:39:37,300
Okay.

931
00:39:37,370 --> 00:39:40,400
Uh, so it's Facebook, Amazon, Apple.

932
00:39:42,220 --> 00:39:42,570
Netflix.

933
00:39:42,590 --> 00:39:42,970
Google.

934
00:39:43,110 --> 00:39:43,270
Yeah.

935
00:39:43,270 --> 00:39:43,630
That's right.

936
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:44,070
Amazon.

937
00:39:44,090 --> 00:39:44,300
Yeah.

938
00:39:44,300 --> 00:39:44,960
I would go Amazon.

939
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:45,290
Yeah.

940
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:45,560
Okay.

941
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,260
And this is, this is a game so that everyone listening could also play.

942
00:39:48,260 --> 00:39:49,180
I was trying to find more games.

943
00:39:49,180 --> 00:39:52,420
If anyone knows audio only games, I was really trying to find

944
00:39:52,430 --> 00:39:54,840
some, like, what is a game that you can play as a party game?

945
00:39:55,170 --> 00:39:56,290
And you are both right.

946
00:39:56,290 --> 00:40:00,160
Amazon was started in 1994, followed by Netflix

947
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,210
in 97, Google in 98 and Facebook in 2004.

948
00:40:04,220 --> 00:40:06,680
And again, I know it's meta now, I know Google is

949
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,600
alphabet, whatever, we're using the fang names here.

950
00:40:09,820 --> 00:40:12,500
Which company has the most revenue?

951
00:40:12,770 --> 00:40:16,810
Apple was one of the first billion dollar companies, but

952
00:40:17,130 --> 00:40:17,930
This isn't net

953
00:40:17,940 --> 00:40:19,740
income, this is total revenue.

954
00:40:20,340 --> 00:40:21,630
This is, so they have, I don't know if they have the

955
00:40:21,630 --> 00:40:23,710
highest market cap, but they have the highest revenue.

956
00:40:24,050 --> 00:40:26,150
I think it's between them and Amazon, because

957
00:40:26,180 --> 00:40:28,640
Amazon has so many different companies, and

958
00:40:28,980 --> 00:40:31,670
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna left field it and say Google.

959
00:40:31,735 --> 00:40:31,745
I

960
00:40:32,495 --> 00:40:32,865
think it's

961
00:40:32,865 --> 00:40:33,325
Apple.

962
00:40:33,715 --> 00:40:34,855
That's service revenue though.

963
00:40:35,315 --> 00:40:41,125
Apple comes in second with 391 billion and this is, this is total for 2024.

964
00:40:41,385 --> 00:40:43,525
So if you're listening to this, this was just, I found, you know, and

965
00:40:43,525 --> 00:40:46,175
it's, I'm rounding all of the numbers down basically to whole numbers.

966
00:40:46,515 --> 00:40:49,335
So 391 was Apple, 391 billion.

967
00:40:49,405 --> 00:40:49,895
Google.

968
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:52,470
350 billion was third place.

969
00:40:53,030 --> 00:40:56,610
Amazon was number one at 637 billion.

970
00:40:56,610 --> 00:40:56,910
Because

971
00:40:56,910 --> 00:40:58,990
they've got AWS blue origin.

972
00:40:59,000 --> 00:41:01,060
Like AWS is very profitable.

973
00:41:01,330 --> 00:41:01,620
Yeah.

974
00:41:01,620 --> 00:41:03,650
Well, beta versus all the money at Amazon, right?

975
00:41:03,700 --> 00:41:04,310
That's yeah.

976
00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:05,640
So that's what I'm saying.

977
00:41:05,650 --> 00:41:08,090
Like I was like, those two have to be, because it's either like,

978
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:12,330
one has got the highest market cap and the other one's got so much,

979
00:41:12,490 --> 00:41:13,310
but more than so.

980
00:41:13,310 --> 00:41:16,270
And, and Facebook is 164 billion.

981
00:41:16,830 --> 00:41:18,840
And Netflix is just down there at 39 billion.

982
00:41:19,210 --> 00:41:20,010
Like they're like, whatever.

983
00:41:20,180 --> 00:41:22,620
But if you take the difference between Apple, if you

984
00:41:22,620 --> 00:41:25,760
combine Facebook and Netflix, Amazon still above, like if

985
00:41:25,770 --> 00:41:29,010
you combine those three, Amazon still has more revenue.

986
00:41:29,350 --> 00:41:30,890
I never would have put them that much higher.

987
00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:31,080
Like

988
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:32,370
I didn't realize that at all.

989
00:41:32,720 --> 00:41:34,780
But revenue is different though, because it also

990
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:37,330
doesn't like take into, that's not net gains.

991
00:41:37,330 --> 00:41:37,800
Yeah, now

992
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:38,830
let's talk about net gain.

993
00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:39,670
Oh no.

994
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:40,750
That's the next question.

995
00:41:40,990 --> 00:41:41,670
Oh no.

996
00:41:41,910 --> 00:41:45,940
I know that Amazon actually was a loss making company for a very long time.

997
00:41:45,940 --> 00:41:46,150
Amazon.

998
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:47,870
com does not make a bunch of money.

999
00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:49,050
Yeah, like they,

1000
00:41:49,070 --> 00:41:50,505
I'm sure they, like, didn't they, they turn

1001
00:41:50,505 --> 00:41:54,710
their first profit in like 2013 or something?

1002
00:41:55,010 --> 00:41:56,110
It's, it's like super late.

1003
00:41:56,550 --> 00:41:59,650
That's also like partially how capitalism decides

1004
00:41:59,770 --> 00:42:01,570
they're going to list their profits though.

1005
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:04,820
I worked for a company that got absolutely destroyed by Amazon.

1006
00:42:04,870 --> 00:42:06,320
That's, that's a bit of trivia for you.

1007
00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:10,390
We, um, relied heavily on Amazon affiliate money and they turned up at our

1008
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,390
office one day for a meeting and were like, we're not going to pay you anymore.

1009
00:42:13,580 --> 00:42:20,130
And we were like, oh, okay, that was, that was, that was a fun time.

1010
00:42:20,710 --> 00:42:23,310
Highest, highest net, highest net income.

1011
00:42:24,100 --> 00:42:24,680
Autumn, what'd you say?

1012
00:42:25,060 --> 00:42:25,790
I would say Apple.

1013
00:42:25,790 --> 00:42:26,305
I'm

1014
00:42:26,305 --> 00:42:27,520
going to say Google again.

1015
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,240
Apple because of the iPhones and just a lot of the way that they don't.

1016
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,360
Apple's very smart with what they get into, right?

1017
00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:37,420
If you notice, they're not in the AI race.

1018
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,230
They're not making huge contributions.

1019
00:42:39,230 --> 00:42:39,320
What?

1020
00:42:39,830 --> 00:42:40,150
Apple's

1021
00:42:40,170 --> 00:42:40,550
totally in

1022
00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:40,630
the

1023
00:42:40,650 --> 00:42:40,820
AI

1024
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:41,430
race.

1025
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:42,130
It is,

1026
00:42:42,450 --> 00:42:42,480
but it's different.

1027
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:43,930
They're not competing, but they're in it.

1028
00:42:44,670 --> 00:42:45,950
No, but it's different, though.

1029
00:42:45,950 --> 00:42:49,960
They haven't made the same 150 million data.

1030
00:42:50,740 --> 00:42:51,350
You know what I mean?

1031
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,850
They are quick to outsource things.

1032
00:42:54,370 --> 00:42:58,350
Like Apple doesn't reinvent the wheel unless they think it's quite like

1033
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:02,130
they did with like, I don't know, Siri and like the certain things.

1034
00:43:02,130 --> 00:43:02,370
Right.

1035
00:43:02,380 --> 00:43:04,840
But they kind of hedge their bets.

1036
00:43:05,435 --> 00:43:11,075
on things, you know, they don't do like a huge, like push in the same way.

1037
00:43:11,365 --> 00:43:14,455
So, and if you're, if you're listening, if you're watching live, feel free

1038
00:43:14,455 --> 00:43:18,095
to, to fill out your answer for who you think is the highest for these things.

1039
00:43:18,105 --> 00:43:20,755
So net income, Sam, you said Google, Autumn,

1040
00:43:20,755 --> 00:43:23,575
you said Apple, and those are in that order.

1041
00:43:23,575 --> 00:43:25,805
Google has a hundred billion nets income.

1042
00:43:26,055 --> 00:43:27,285
Apple has 93 billion.

1043
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:28,950
So very, really close on that one.

1044
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:31,880
It is a, uh, it is actually almost the whole difference of a Netflix.

1045
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,740
Netflix was 8 billion down at the bottom.

1046
00:43:35,740 --> 00:43:36,660
There is Netflix,

1047
00:43:37,310 --> 00:43:39,440
but if you think of what their revenue and what

1048
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:42,690
their net growth is, Netflix isn't doing that.

1049
00:43:42,870 --> 00:43:44,010
Oh, we can talk about growth next.

1050
00:43:44,010 --> 00:43:46,060
That's the perfect, you lead into it, but I want to fill out

1051
00:43:46,060 --> 00:43:51,530
the, so it's Google hundred Apple 93, Facebook 62, Amazon 59.

1052
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:56,360
So even though Amazon had 637 billion revenue,

1053
00:43:56,530 --> 00:43:59,350
they are second to last in net income.

1054
00:43:59,510 --> 00:44:02,520
That's because AWS funds a lot of other businesses.

1055
00:44:02,610 --> 00:44:03,480
Yeah, exactly.

1056
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,060
You get one, one that makes the money.

1057
00:44:06,350 --> 00:44:08,380
You have to be careful when you say net.

1058
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,500
Revenue and like all that

1059
00:44:10,500 --> 00:44:12,000
because it's the same thing with Google search, right?

1060
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,130
Like Google search funds, everything else at Alphabet.

1061
00:44:15,690 --> 00:44:16,650
That shocked me as well.

1062
00:44:16,650 --> 00:44:18,310
While I was like, it's something incredible,

1063
00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,970
like 95 percent of profit comes from search.

1064
00:44:20,990 --> 00:44:21,390
It's crazy.

1065
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:26,590
When I was at Disney, I was shocked when I was there 2014 it was like 80

1066
00:44:26,590 --> 00:44:30,870
percent of all of Disney's revenue was ESPN cable subscriptions, ESPN.

1067
00:44:31,220 --> 00:44:35,650
And that has completely flipped now like ESPN is, is, is like the bottom of it.

1068
00:44:35,650 --> 00:44:37,620
And parks are basically taking over because

1069
00:44:37,620 --> 00:44:38,829
they're like, we want in person experience now.

1070
00:44:39,210 --> 00:44:42,510
But I think that's like, well, not just that, but I really

1071
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:45,810
think that that's just a lesson of corporate America, right?

1072
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,060
Like the way that we are set up to make like businesses and corporations

1073
00:44:50,060 --> 00:44:53,310
and the way that people can umbrella them all under and then share revenue.

1074
00:44:53,310 --> 00:44:56,380
And then it's a lot, also a lot of just like,

1075
00:44:56,675 --> 00:44:59,425
What companies want their shareholders to feel.

1076
00:44:59,545 --> 00:45:03,255
So it's like if you're all under the same umbrellas, you're

1077
00:45:03,295 --> 00:45:06,425
always going to impress your shareholders with revenue

1078
00:45:06,535 --> 00:45:09,255
because all of these companies revenues are combined.

1079
00:45:09,725 --> 00:45:12,585
So, like, there's, it gives them that added incentive to

1080
00:45:12,585 --> 00:45:15,205
not break those other companies into their own companies,

1081
00:45:15,215 --> 00:45:16,775
and then you're giving everybody the same stock.

1082
00:45:16,775 --> 00:45:20,825
So I don't even know if these are, like, very company specific.

1083
00:45:20,855 --> 00:45:22,785
It's just the smartest way to do business.

1084
00:45:23,475 --> 00:45:26,565
America's tax laws and corporations, you know what I mean?

1085
00:45:26,565 --> 00:45:29,775
So that none of this is specific to Amazon or anything.

1086
00:45:29,775 --> 00:45:32,005
It's the way that Americans do business.

1087
00:45:32,395 --> 00:45:35,015
That surprises me because I think one of the stated reasons

1088
00:45:35,015 --> 00:45:39,905
that Google formed Alphabet was that they wanted investors

1089
00:45:39,905 --> 00:45:43,475
to be able to invest more specifically in Google properties.

1090
00:45:43,505 --> 00:45:47,010
So they didn't want to have everything lumped into the same stock ticker.

1091
00:45:47,010 --> 00:45:48,190
They wanted to have separate ones.

1092
00:45:48,190 --> 00:45:51,600
So specifically, but they, it's that option, right?

1093
00:45:51,610 --> 00:45:55,260
Like you can either keep it all together or you can invest into

1094
00:45:55,260 --> 00:45:58,730
certain things, but you still get the same overly revenue or like,

1095
00:45:58,820 --> 00:46:02,700
you know, like, and you get the same like umbrella of things, just

1096
00:46:02,700 --> 00:46:06,290
like when you do data centers and like each company now, like.

1097
00:46:06,580 --> 00:46:11,090
A lot of like at some point they're going to have to start their own like

1098
00:46:11,100 --> 00:46:15,110
different companies and those countries for those data centers because a lot

1099
00:46:15,190 --> 00:46:19,200
of places are going to have it where your data has to be within that country.

1100
00:46:19,700 --> 00:46:20,500
So, you know what I mean?

1101
00:46:20,500 --> 00:46:24,720
So it's going to be a big thing and it's their data center,

1102
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:27,860
but it's going to be under another, you know what I mean?

1103
00:46:27,860 --> 00:46:31,140
So they're all, this is all influenced by tax laws and

1104
00:46:31,210 --> 00:46:35,400
revenue and stakeholders and stock and soon to be data laws.

1105
00:46:35,930 --> 00:46:36,200
Like,

1106
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:36,500
so.

1107
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:38,140
One last question.

1108
00:46:38,330 --> 00:46:41,280
Who had the biggest year over year growth from 2023 to 2024?

1109
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:41,970
I

1110
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,300
can't see a world in which that's not Netflix.

1111
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:45,280
Really?

1112
00:46:45,540 --> 00:46:47,500
If we're talking about percentage growth.

1113
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:50,050
Let's see, they've had a lot of good studio shows.

1114
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,800
The cloud isn't as popular, so I don't know about Amazon and Google.

1115
00:46:54,020 --> 00:46:55,200
Can Facebook grow?

1116
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,620
Are there any more worlds to conquer?

1117
00:46:57,660 --> 00:46:59,300
Like, what are their daily active views of that now?

1118
00:46:59,320 --> 00:47:01,100
Like, 28 billion or something?

1119
00:47:01,390 --> 00:47:04,400
Well, not just that, but they, well, okay, we're not talking about revenue

1120
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,030
or net, so we can't say it's because they dumped too much money in the

1121
00:47:07,030 --> 00:47:10,850
metaverse, so like, I mean, but I mean, if they made a hundred billion.

1122
00:47:11,135 --> 00:47:12,275
a net last year?

1123
00:47:12,665 --> 00:47:15,465
I feel like Apple, I mean, they're pretty consistent with

1124
00:47:15,465 --> 00:47:19,345
the, like, iPhone, but the glasses didn't do anything major.

1125
00:47:19,515 --> 00:47:21,635
So who would have net growth of that much?

1126
00:47:21,985 --> 00:47:23,905
I have some of those, by the way, right there.

1127
00:47:24,575 --> 00:47:25,095
Are they good?

1128
00:47:25,315 --> 00:47:26,345
Uh, I like them a lot.

1129
00:47:26,425 --> 00:47:28,365
Uh, I didn't pay for them, so I'm, I'm biased.

1130
00:47:28,365 --> 00:47:30,855
I won them in a competition, but I, I like them.

1131
00:47:31,025 --> 00:47:33,825
They have obvious deficiencies, but Either of you have a guess?

1132
00:47:34,995 --> 00:47:35,665
I would say Netflix.

1133
00:47:36,375 --> 00:47:38,305
I feel like everybody had a crappy year.

1134
00:47:39,405 --> 00:47:39,875
I'll pick one.

1135
00:47:39,985 --> 00:47:43,225
I'm going to go with maybe Amazon.

1136
00:47:43,425 --> 00:47:47,335
Biggest year of your growth, the top, Facebook, 20%.

1137
00:47:47,335 --> 00:47:47,865
What?

1138
00:47:47,865 --> 00:47:48,925
For what?

1139
00:47:48,925 --> 00:47:49,454
How?

1140
00:47:49,454 --> 00:47:50,255
What did they do?

1141
00:47:50,895 --> 00:47:51,115
Right?

1142
00:47:51,315 --> 00:47:53,155
Netflix, 15%, second place.

1143
00:47:53,415 --> 00:47:54,625
Google, 13%.

1144
00:47:55,165 --> 00:47:56,105
Amazon, 10%.

1145
00:47:56,165 --> 00:47:57,985
Apple, 2 percent growth year over year.

1146
00:47:58,035 --> 00:47:58,585
Wow.

1147
00:47:59,445 --> 00:48:00,665
That's wild.

1148
00:48:01,265 --> 00:48:01,995
Wild, right?

1149
00:48:02,005 --> 00:48:04,325
Thinking of it, if you think of that side of it, it's just

1150
00:48:05,235 --> 00:48:08,395
I'm sure that like monthly active user base is 4 billion users.

1151
00:48:08,545 --> 00:48:10,515
It's something absolutely absurd.

1152
00:48:10,635 --> 00:48:12,675
I don't know how they can, like, what are they growing in?

1153
00:48:14,005 --> 00:48:17,895
I think that, well, for one, they forced people to get their

1154
00:48:17,895 --> 00:48:20,675
own accounts though, and you can't use the same Netflix account.

1155
00:48:20,675 --> 00:48:21,885
We should have taken that into account.

1156
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:24,630
Because they forced their own IP, which was

1157
00:48:24,630 --> 00:48:26,270
really smart because now people can't share.

1158
00:48:26,270 --> 00:48:26,460
That was

1159
00:48:26,460 --> 00:48:28,360
my Halloween costume, didn't you saw it, right?

1160
00:48:28,370 --> 00:48:29,000
Hold on a second.

1161
00:48:29,020 --> 00:48:29,710
Wait one second.

1162
00:48:30,050 --> 00:48:31,990
Now you know what being Justin's friend likes him.

1163
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:34,650
Is he in his garage?

1164
00:48:34,770 --> 00:48:35,330
Yes.

1165
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:37,900
There's a Wreck It Ralph poster over there too.

1166
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:39,490
You wore that for Halloween?

1167
00:48:41,350 --> 00:48:43,390
That was, that was the scariest thing I could think of.

1168
00:48:43,740 --> 00:48:45,140
Show us down Wreck It Ralph.

1169
00:48:45,450 --> 00:48:47,980
Oh, wow, that's a lot bigger than I was expecting.

1170
00:48:48,140 --> 00:48:48,440
Yep.

1171
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:49,730
Great film, by the way.

1172
00:48:49,770 --> 00:48:50,670
Second one was okay.

1173
00:48:50,900 --> 00:48:52,570
I agree, and that's the one I'm in, so.

1174
00:48:53,410 --> 00:48:53,530
You

1175
00:48:53,530 --> 00:48:53,970
were in the

1176
00:48:53,970 --> 00:48:55,010
second record, Ralph?

1177
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:56,690
My name's in the credits, yeah.

1178
00:48:57,070 --> 00:48:58,420
Oh, that's so cool!

1179
00:48:58,420 --> 00:49:01,170
I didn't help with the first one, I helped with the second one.

1180
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:03,260
So it was your fault!

1181
00:49:03,445 --> 00:49:03,755
I see it

1182
00:49:04,175 --> 00:49:06,615
was, I did, I did try to get some, like, they were asking

1183
00:49:06,615 --> 00:49:09,055
for Easter eggs for like technology memes and Easter eggs.

1184
00:49:09,065 --> 00:49:11,725
And I really tried to get the, uh, Kubernetes, uh, seven

1185
00:49:11,725 --> 00:49:15,235
spoke wheel as, as one of the things in the, in the film.

1186
00:49:15,235 --> 00:49:17,365
And it said they put the Netflix navigator

1187
00:49:17,415 --> 00:49:19,145
eight spoke wheel, which was still a good one.

1188
00:49:19,395 --> 00:49:20,995
So, so a good call out if you know it.

1189
00:49:21,670 --> 00:49:25,240
Thank you everyone for listening to the show and thank you for participating.

1190
00:49:25,240 --> 00:49:27,410
If you come join the live stream, we are trying to do these.

1191
00:49:27,420 --> 00:49:30,360
It's going to be the second to last Friday of every month.

1192
00:49:30,630 --> 00:49:32,650
The episode will come out on the last Friday of every month.

1193
00:49:32,980 --> 00:49:35,750
Thank you so much, Sam, for coming on the show now twice this

1194
00:49:35,750 --> 00:49:38,330
month and joining us for the game and teaching us all about

1195
00:49:38,550 --> 00:49:39,590
getting to know you, Sam.

1196
00:49:39,690 --> 00:49:42,109
Also, Sam has a cool toast behind him with a

1197
00:49:42,110 --> 00:49:44,800
mustache on it, and that's the coolest toast ever.

1198
00:49:45,340 --> 00:49:46,380
It's a disguised toast.

1199
00:49:46,815 --> 00:49:50,724
So thank you, anyone else, if you want to listen to the show again, fafo.

1200
00:49:50,725 --> 00:49:52,055
fm, we have a store.

1201
00:49:52,055 --> 00:49:54,275
If you do a slash store, we have some merch out there.

1202
00:49:54,275 --> 00:49:56,035
We have a couple of shirts and I don't know

1203
00:49:56,045 --> 00:49:57,375
when this happens is going out next week.

1204
00:49:57,415 --> 00:50:01,455
Autumn and I are going to both be at scale in Pasadena next week.

1205
00:50:01,475 --> 00:50:05,455
So if you are there the week of March 3rd, we will be there.

1206
00:50:05,455 --> 00:50:06,525
Autumn, you have a talk.

1207
00:50:06,705 --> 00:50:10,925
I'm just kind of hanging out and yeah, we will talk to you all again real soon.

1208
00:50:26,230 --> 00:50:29,210
Thank you for listening to this episode of Fork Around and Find Out.

1209
00:50:29,540 --> 00:50:31,680
If you like this show, please consider sharing it with

1210
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,860
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1211
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,060
However we get the word out about this show

1212
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:39,490
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1213
00:50:39,770 --> 00:50:42,160
If you want to sponsor this show, please go to fafo.

1214
00:50:43,490 --> 00:50:47,020
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1215
00:50:47,020 --> 00:50:49,220
you're interested in sponsoring and how we can help.

1216
00:50:50,500 --> 00:50:53,670
We hope your systems stay available and your pagers stay quiet.

1217
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:55,380
We'll see you again next time.